Grain filling...
Wenge....
![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad")
Anyone else struggle filling wenge? First time I've used it and it's got really open texture, tried dust and shellac and then pumice but I can't get a decent fill.
Any suggestions?
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| Frustration http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45667 |
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| Author: | UKSteve [ Thu May 07, 2015 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Frustration |
Grain filling... Wenge.... Anyone else struggle filling wenge? First time I've used it and it's got really open texture, tried dust and shellac and then pumice but I can't get a decent fill. Any suggestions? |
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| Author: | PeterF [ Thu May 07, 2015 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
Have you tried epoxy? |
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| Author: | UKSteve [ Thu May 07, 2015 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
No, never used epoxy as a filler. Don't really like the thought of all that chemical exposure though. Have you ever tried making your own paste filler? Any tried and tested recipes? |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Thu May 07, 2015 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
Hi Steve, I use epoxy on my Wenge guitars. It still usually takes 3-4 passes to get it level. Here is a vid from Robby Obrien using drywall compound. I've never tried it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhk6rZ2UI1Y |
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| Author: | UKSteve [ Thu May 07, 2015 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
Cheers Michael, I've seen Robbie's video before, might be worth a try. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
Try sanding with 220 grit wet/dry paper and alcohol. Wrap the paper around an artgum eraser if you have one. Makes a great little sanding block. I tried it on some curly mahogany and it seemed to give a bit of a head start on pumice filling, but wouldn't top off the pores by itself. Wenge is the perfect wood to experiment on, since it's the one that most needs a head start 
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Thu May 07, 2015 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
Most pore filling methods require more than one fill, with drying/sinking time between each application. Your Wenge might require 3 applications. I tend to use the Pumice/Shellac fill or the oil sand fill on Walnut. I'm trying a new method (new to me) that looks promising, although it's very early days. You can make your own traditional water based fillers from gypsum and earth pigments. Whichever method you choose try it on scrap. it's not just about getting a method that works fast but one that gives a good match to the wood. I guess that epoxy and CA give a very good 'natural' look to the filled pores. I haven't tried those but I have filled with straight shellac, that always gave a very good colour match. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu May 07, 2015 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
UKSteve wrote: No, never used epoxy as a filler. Don't really like the thought of all that chemical exposure though. Have you ever tried making your own paste filler? Any tried and tested recipes? Chemical exposure is a concern and epoxy can be a sensitizer and we have had one forum member who got pretty darn sick from it too. With that said on my first several guitars I struggled with pore filling and very nearly quit Lutherie because the results of everything that I tried, paste fillers, etc. sucked.... Then I learned to use epoxy and/or epoxy finishing resin with protective concerns, nitrile gloves, ventilation, etc. and my problems were solved.... Not pushing epoxy on you but every pore filler available including Robbie's suggstions (I took Robbie's course) did not provide the results that epoxy does. Many fillers shrink back but epoxy seems to stay as we want it for years now on my creations. Most anything that we use to craft a musical instrument can hurt you if you try hard enough from edge tools to band saws to the worse injury prone tool of all table saws. But... we learn how to use these things safely and to get the job done. Epoxy is no different. I admire your concern over the chemicals but would add here as well that in my experience epoxy works very, very well and keeps on working for years to come. Wenge is as bad as it gets pore wise so if I were you I would go with something known to work or you may have issues down the road. Welcome to the forum as well! |
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| Author: | Jimmyjames [ Thu May 07, 2015 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
DennisK wrote: Try sanding with 220 grit wet/dry paper and alcohol. Wrap the paper around an artgum eraser if you have one. Makes a great little sanding block. I tried it on some curly mahogany and it seemed to give a bit of a head start on pumice filling, but wouldn't top off the pores by itself. Wenge is the perfect wood to experiment on, since it's the one that most needs a head start An artgum eraser is a brilliant idea for all sorts of contours. Thanks for this idea! -j |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Thu May 07, 2015 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
Jimmyjames wrote: An artgum eraser is a brilliant idea for all sorts of contours. Thanks for this idea! -j You can shape them to get into the waist, too
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| Author: | DannyV [ Thu May 07, 2015 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
Pore fill Wenge? Sorry. Can't be done.  Iv'e done one guitar with back and sides and used a bit for appointments. It would be tough to do with fills other than epoxy or CA to get a glass like finish. That being said, there is no rule that says you have to have a glass like finish. In fact, Wenge is so outrageously poris, you might celebrate the pores and do no filling. What would James Krenov do??????? Might even have the effect of thousands of tiny sound ports.IMHO Wenge is a wonderfully pretty, highly under rated tone wood. Closest thing to BRW I'm pretty sure.   (have you tapped it?)
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Thu May 07, 2015 10:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
DannyV wrote: Pore fill Wenge? Sorry. Can't be done. Iv'e done one guitar with back and sides and used a bit for appointments. It would be tough to do with fills other than epoxy or CA to get a glass like finish. That being said, there is no rule that says you have to have a glass like finish. In fact, Wenge is so outrageously poris, you might celebrate the pores and do no filling. What would James Krenov do??????? Might even have the effect of thousands of tiny sound ports.IMHO Wenge is a wonderfully pretty, highly under rated tone wood. Closest thing to BRW I'm pretty sure. (have you tapped it?)+1 to all this. If any wood is begging for an open-pored finish it's wenge. Still, if you must pore fill you will need patience and several passes whatever the method. IMO epoxy or superglue is probably the best if it has to be glass smooth over the long haul. |
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| Author: | kjaffrey [ Fri May 08, 2015 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frustration |
I am in the process of filling a Wenge guitar. Do not use Aqua Coat!!!  I used it first and it filled the pores nicely after many coats. Unfortunately after spraying the first few coats of nitro the pores turned a "crystalline" looking white color that looked horrible. So I got to strip that all off and scrub it out of the pores. I then just used some old oil based paste filler in a rosewood color. It did okay but I still needs the finish to complete the fill. We'll see how much shrink back there is.I did use epoxy before and had mixed results. On two guitars the finish turned somewhat gummy when it reacted with one players sweat. I wasn't sure if the cause was amine blush with the epoxy or some other thing, but it scared me away from the epoxy for a while. Enjoy and let me know what you use and how it works. Kent |
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